Talk:Hassan Nasrallah

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Hassan Nasrallah article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1: 30 days

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Further information

The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are:

Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.
Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required.

With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:

Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring.
Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.

After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions.
Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

Biography: Politics and Government

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as High-importance).

Lebanon Mid‑importance

	Lebanon portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lebanon, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Lebanon-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LebanonWikipedia:WikiProject LebanonTemplate:WikiProject LebanonLebanon articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Biography / Asian / Middle East / Cold War / Post-Cold War C‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

C

This article has been rated as C-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military biography task force
	Asian military history task force
	Middle Eastern military history task force
	Cold War task force (c. 1945 – c. 1989)
	Post-Cold War task force

Islam

	Islam portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Islam, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Islam-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslamWikipedia:WikiProject IslamTemplate:WikiProject IslamIslam-related articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 2 times. The weeks in which this happened:

September 22 to 28, 2024 (4th)
September 29 to October 5, 2024 (13th)

Unreliable sources

There is a large amount of scholarship on everything to do with Nasrallah up until recently. Therefore we can do without sources of questionable reliability like Shaul Shay (not an WP:INDEPENDENT source), MEMRI, CAMERA etc.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 18:25, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

Is it WP:DUE to add the claim that Hezbollah is considered a terrorist group by many nations in the lead? Ping to Nythar who reverted my bold edit, and of course everyone else is invited to discuss. Cremastra (talk) 20:42, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Cremastra: I don't wish to get too involved in this conflict's topic area but if you want to add the fact that Hezbollah is considered a terrorist organization in the lede, the first sentence of Nasrallah's article is probably not the best place to do so. I don't have an opinion on adding that label somewhere else in the lede. Regards, Nythar (💬-🍀) 20:51, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd agree. Nelson Mandela, Yasser Arafat, Yitzhak Shamir are all people who headed organizations that were considered by many to be terrorist. None of them have that mentioned in the first paragraph.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 20:53, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with VR, and the comparison with Yitzhak Shamir is apt. No reason to refer to Nasrallah in other terminology than to Shamir. Jeppiz (talk) 00:00, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is a classic WP:OTHERCONTENT argument, which is to be avoided in Wikipedia discussions. Instead, per WP:NPOV this decision should be based on the weight that reliable sources give this designation in their coverage of this article's subject. Regards, HaeB (talk) 05:22, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HaeB is right, we should be looking at RS.

The BBC's "Who was Hassan Nasrallah" [1] does not mention "terror" or "terrorist". It notes that Nasrallah adapted Hezbollah from a militia force to a military force stronger than the Lebanese army. Its first desctiption of Hezbollah in that article is a militant Shia Islamist movement
The Guardian's analysis article [2] does not mention "terror" or "terrorist". It does not characterise Hezbollah in the article, merely saying with the Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah confirmed killed...
CNN's obituary [3] does mention "terrorist": Much of the Western world has designated Hezbollah a terrorist organization. However, its first description of Hezbollah is as one of the most powerful paramilitary forces in the Middle East.

I will come back with more sources. Cremastra (talk) 13:56, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

CBC [4] only mentions "terror" or "terrorist" in a quote from Netanyahu. It does not otherwise characterize Hezbollah.
The Sydney Morning Herald [5] describes Hezbollah as a militant group. "Terror" or "terrorist" was only mentioned in a quote from the Israeli military.
Le Monde's obituary [6] notes that Nasrallah was considered a terrorist by the United States – but not by France. It characterizes Hezbollah as a pro-Iranian militia party and ...this militia...
AlJazeera [7] notes that Hezbollah was considered a terrorist organization by his enemies, but also notes the Shia leader was lauded for standing up to Israel and defying the United States.
The Daily ~~Tory~~Telegraph characterizes Hezbollah in-voice as a terrorist proxy [of Iran]. Cremastra (talk) 20:39, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@HaeB @Jeppiz @Nythar @Talgalili @Vice regent It would seem that the best description in the lead, based on these sources, (and here's the link to the Telegraph I forgot to add) that the best description would be Hassan Nasrallah (Arabic: حسن نصر الله, romanized: Ḥasan Naṣr-Allāh, pronounced [ħasan nasˤralːaːh]; 31 August 1960 – 27 September 2024) was a Lebanese cleric and politician who served as the secretary-general of Hezbollah, a Shia Islamist ~~political party and~~ militia, from February 1992 until his assassination in September 2024. Sources focus on the "militia" or "paramilitary" aspect in their descriptions of Hezbollah in the context of Nasrallah, not on its political activities. "Terrorist" is likely not due. Cremastra (talk) 20:43, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good. Two things I'd add:
Nasrallah was a Hezbollah official ever since its inception (1982).

Prior to 1982 Nasrallah was a political figure in the AMAL movement.
Both of these facts merit mention in the first paragraph, but very briefly. VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 01:31, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the article, it says:

Under his tenure, Hezbollah has been designated a terrorist organization, either wholly or in part, by the United States and other nations, as well as by the European Union. The Arab League designated Hezbollah a terrorist organization in 2016, but as of 2024 no longer views it as one.[26] As of 2015, Russia was rejecting the claims that Hezbollah is a terrorist organization, and considered Hezbollah a legitimate sociopolitical organization.[27] As of 2012, China remains neutral, and maintains contacts with Hezbollah.[28][29]

This, to me, seems like a rather important piece of information that is worth being placed in the lead (it can be in the one before last paragraph). With regards to Yitzhak Shapir, I think it also makes sense to include a similar sentence of that nature in his Article. If someone is recognized by a wide variety of nations to be a terrorist, it seems a rather important piece of information to surface. The article on Hezbollah clearly states

The entire organization, or its military wing alone, has been designated as a terrorist organization by several countries,[47] including most Western nations.[48]

On the first paragraph. I think that for Nasrallah, it makes sense to include it in the lead. Tal Galili (talk) 07:12, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep in mind that wikipedia articles are not WP:RS, and some content there has been recently added without consensus.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 01:29, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lede (2)

~~Skitash, Why did you revert my addition of "his death" in the lede without reason? I have reverted my own accidental second addition of it, but why? It's a factual statement.~~

Nevermind, it appears to have been a mistake. Sir MemeGod  13:30, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

International politics section

[8] I added a rewriting tag to this section, which is clearly unencyclopaedic bullet point collection of random quotes. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:43, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. We need to more boldly paraphrase. Don't need every way he's made anti-Israel or anti-Jewish statements that may be taken as offensive. If his statements appear inconsistent, we can note that in an encyclopedic way without a collection of quotes. ProfGray (talk) 12:22, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I revised one section, which had been incorrectly named (relative to the text at the time). ProfGray (talk) 12:45, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 October 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Add his successor in the infobox, Hashem Safieddine. 2003:100:3700:600:F03F:1945:5A27:C6BD (talk) 04:54, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – macaddct1984 ^{(talk | contribs)} 17:10, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 October 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please add that his son-in-law was killed today.

https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2024/10/02/israel-strikes-residential-building-in-damascus-syrian-state-media-says-

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/oct/02/israel-iran-attacks-latest-updates-live-hezbollah-lebanon-beirut-strikes?page=with:block-66fdb6848f081e31ced38bc2#block-66fdb6848f081e31ced38bc2 Readingpro256 _{talk to me contribs} 22:53, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done I've added it to the "personal life" section. I have no objection if anyone wants to move or change it. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 00:40, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Remove photo of "Pezeshkian"

The photo captioned "Iranian president Masoud Pezeshkian paying respects to Nasrallah following his death" is very obviously not actually Pezeshkian. Actual photo of Pezeshkian at the event, from the same source:

https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/media/2024/09/30/3168900/iranian-officials-express-solidarity-with-hezbollah#photo=30

This photo should be removed or at least replaced. In future, please wear your glasses while making edits. AryanamManifest (talk) 10:06, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Changes

I made some changes to the page a few days ago. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 15:39, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]