Talk:Baloch people

Skip to table of contents

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Baloch people article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1: 30 days

Ethnic groups Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ethnic groupsWikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groupsTemplate:WikiProject Ethnic groupsEthnic groups

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Ethnic groups open tasks:

Here are some open WikiProject Ethnic groups tasks:

Meta-tasks:
- Place the {{Ethnic groups}} template on the talk page of articles within the scope of this project.
- Resolve the disparity in importance rankings among different ethnic groups
Articles about ethnic groups that currently have issues needing resolution:
Start an article:
- Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Article requests

Feel free to edit this list or discuss these tasks.

Pakistan: Balochistan Mid‑importance

	Pakistan portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pakistan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pakistan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PakistanWikipedia:WikiProject PakistanTemplate:WikiProject PakistanPakistan
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Balochistan, Pakistan (assessed as High-importance).

Iran Mid‑importance

	Iran portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Iran, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles related to Iran on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project where you can contribute to the discussions and help with our open tasks.IranWikipedia:WikiProject IranTemplate:WikiProject IranIran
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Afghanistan Mid‑importance

	Afghanistan portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Afghanistan, a project to maintain and expand Afghanistan-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.AfghanistanWikipedia:WikiProject AfghanistanTemplate:WikiProject AfghanistanAfghanistan
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Anthropology: Oral tradition Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anthropology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Anthropology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AnthropologyWikipedia:WikiProject AnthropologyTemplate:WikiProject AnthropologyAnthropology
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.
	This article is supported by Oral tradition taskforce.

The Wikimedia Foundation's Terms of Use require that editors disclose their "employer, client, and affiliation" with respect to any paid contribution; see WP:PAID. For advice about reviewing paid contributions, see WP:COIRESPONSE.

Stability Information East 2 (talk · contribs) has been paid by Stability Operations Information Center (SOIC-East). Their editing has included contributions to this article. role accounts as disclosed in user page

Weird sentence under the History section

>>According to Professor Baloch, the climate of Balochistan was very cold and the region was inhabitable during the winter so the Baloch people migrated in waves and settled in Sindh and Punjab.[25]<<

Does this sentence make sense? If the region was very cold, was it hard to inhabit? And was this then a reason for them to migrate?

This sentence right now doesn't make sense to me. There seems to be some sort of contrast that doesn't work.

personal commentary!

Haven't checked the rest of the cited citations yet. In the context has been added:

" Although they kept flocks of sheep, the Baloches also engaged in plundering travelers on the desert routes. This brought them into conflict with the Buyids, and later the Ghaznavids and the Seljuqs. Adud al-Dawla of the Buyid dynasty launched a punitive campaign against them and defeated them in 971–972."

but I found no such mention in that source. It is clear personal commentary. Balash-Vologases (talk) 20:07, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Religion

I removed Deobandi and Barelvi In the text of articleو

In the religion section you added: @Metamentalist

: 64.78% are Deobandis, 33.38% are Barelvis, and 1.25% are Ahl-i Hadith

These two revivalists movement are only practiced by few Balochs of Pakistan and not followed in other Baluch-populated areas in Iran, Afghanistan and etc.

Deobandi and Barelvi are not mentioned in the valid sources and studies that represent the religion of the Baloch.^[1]^[2]

I've checked all the sources, and none of them , mention that the Baloch religion shows "Deobandi and Barelvi " . Or anything along those lines. Seems only few Balochs in Pakistan follow those sects not generally correct about other Baloch. Balash-Vologases (talk) 16:08, 19 December 2024 (UTC) Balash-Vologases (talk) 19:46, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello dear, I've added the exact Tables from the source about the denomination (Barelvi, Deobandi or Ahl e Hadith), these are for Pakistan (and it has been precised "in Pakistan" in the text), I don't know about dynamics for Baloch elsewhere even if I think Deobandism is strong in Iran, please don't edit legitimate information and sources, thanks for your understanding. Metamentalist (talk) 13:23, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The sources don't support your claim, vast majority of the baloch don't subscribe those movements. Barelvi, Deobandi are are not Islamic religions, they are just political approaches.

In all sources, the Baloch religion is described as Sunni Islam with a Shiite minority.^[3]^[4]^[5]

please read WP:RS this time, as well as WP:PST and WP:EXTRAORDINARY. And just from a quick glance the source presents LOADS of theories, yet you're cherrypicking the ones you favour the most. Balash-Vologases (talk) 15:23, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Topic

@Wikaviani How is adding just "iranic people" appropriate when Baloch are an admixed population of different ethnicities? [1] Here is a source speaks of them being genetically related somewhat to the Indo Aryan Punjabi ethnic group, [2] while one speaks of them having sub subsaharan African admixture and upto 45% South Asian ancestry. And this [3] speaks of assimilated of an Indian race into the Baloch confederation? It is better to remove it instead of adding all these different ethnicities Axedd (talk) 22:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We don't care about genetics here, Balouch people speak a Western Iranian language, therefore, they are considered to be an Iranian people. Check the wikipedia definition of Iranian peoples here : "The Iranian peoples, or the Iranic peoples, are the collective ethno-linguistic groups who are identified chiefly by their native usage of any of the Iranian languages, which are a branch of the Indo-Iranian languages within the Indo-European language family.". Also, genetic studies may be misleading sometimes, as people don't really understand what they say (what are we talking about ? autosomal studies ? haplogroups ? MTDNA admixtures ? Y chromosome admixtures ? etc ...). Best regards.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 22:25, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So how is adding "iranic people" in the related ethnic groups not misleading when its usage extends to actually genetically/ethnically related groups on almost all articles?? It should be changed to Indo-Iranian people to look less misleading like it was before the recent changes Axedd (talk) 22:34, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See for example Hungarians speaking a non Indo European language but mostly European by ancestry don't have a related ethnic group mentioned at all Axedd (talk) 22:36, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because at Hungarians, the article gives a geographic description, not an ethnic description, the article says : "Hungarians, also known as Magyars (/ˈmæɡjɑːrz/ MAG-yarz; Hungarian: magyarok [ˈmɒɟɒrok]), are a Central European nation and an ethnic group native to Hungary".---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 22:53, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My point is they don't mention Finno Uralic people being related to them, as that's just part of the story, hence left out. Axedd (talk) 23:19, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

^ Korn, Jahani, Titus, Agnes , Carina , Paul Brian (2008). The Baloch and Others Linguistic, Historical and Socio-political Perspectives on Pluralism in Balochistan. Reichert Verlag. p. 12. ISBN 9783895005916.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
^ "Baloch people". Encyclopædia Britannica.
^ Malik, Fida Hussain (2020). Balochistan A Conflict of Narratives. Saiyid Books. p. 175. ISBN 9789692200028.
^ Louër, Laurence (2020). Sunnis and Shi'a A Political Histo. Princeton University Press. p. 159. ISBN 9780691234502.
^ Ahmady, Kameel (2013). From Border to Border Research Study on Identity and Ethnicity in Iran. Avaye Buf. p. 100. ISBN 9788794295314.

[1] Korn, Jahani, Titus, Agnes , Carina , Paul Brian (2008). The Baloch and Others Linguistic, Historical and Socio-political Perspectives on Pluralism in Balochistan. Reichert Verlag. p. 12. ISBN 9783895005916.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

[2] "Baloch people". Encyclopædia Britannica.

[:Balochistan_A_Conflict_of_Narratives-3] Malik, Fida Hussain (2020). Balochistan A Conflict of Narratives. Saiyid Books. p. 175. ISBN 9789692200028.

[2-4] Louër, Laurence (2020). Sunnis and Shi'a A Political Histo. Princeton University Press. p. 159. ISBN 9780691234502.

[:From_Border_to_Border_Research_Study_on_Identity_and_Ethnicity_in_Iran-5] Ahmady, Kameel (2013). From Border to Border Research Study on Identity and Ethnicity in Iran. Avaye Buf. p. 100. ISBN 9788794295314.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]